Photo: Stacy Lanyon
I had been meaning to get around to going to the park, and
after the pepper spray videos went up, I showed up the next day. I stopped
making excuses for myself and said, “This is important.” More largely, what
drew me was what was at the time a more vague sense about what was wrong with
the system. My activism beforehand had mostly been related to the Green Party
and Ralph Nader support, but it was only occasional. This movement spoke to
everything that I thought was wrong, which I think is what I liked about the
Nader candidacy. Clearly, he never really had a chance of winning, but it
addressed the environment, economics, the military, a wider range of things. So
Occupy presented a chance to stand for a lot of things that at once united a
lot of people, and that’s what drew me to the movement. My first day at the
park was the day of the
publicity stunt that Radiohead was going to be performing in Zuccotti, which I
hadn’t heard, but everyone was making signs, and one guys was walking around
with a sign that said, “Where’s Radiohead?” It was only a few days later that
the Brooklyn Bridge arrests happened.
Like many people, the first thing I saw was pictures online, and I was a little bit confused because it was just such a variety of messages. I was trying to figure out what it was all about, what the main idea was, and it didn’t really sink in until I stepped into the park that the variety of messages was not to the detriment of the movement but in fact what made it unique and what made it interesting. I met with a friend I had known for years, and she told me how great the meetings were going and how the process was such a beautiful thing, and I really found it to be a magical place. If you wanted to do a protest at any point in the week, you could just show up, and you’d be part of something that felt valid and that people actually paid attention to. That had never happened before in my life. If you were free on Thursday from 7-9, you could go down there, and there would be something going on. Maybe Naomi Kline would be speaking. Maybe there was a march to Times Square. Whatever it was, there was always something, and how incredible that was. Simply being in the park was a protest itself. My impression of the park is that it provided an outlet for people who knew that there was something wrong and wanted to do something about it. Literally, all you had to do was show up, and you would be put to work. That’s what was so magical about it.
Like many people, the first thing I saw was pictures online, and I was a little bit confused because it was just such a variety of messages. I was trying to figure out what it was all about, what the main idea was, and it didn’t really sink in until I stepped into the park that the variety of messages was not to the detriment of the movement but in fact what made it unique and what made it interesting. I met with a friend I had known for years, and she told me how great the meetings were going and how the process was such a beautiful thing, and I really found it to be a magical place. If you wanted to do a protest at any point in the week, you could just show up, and you’d be part of something that felt valid and that people actually paid attention to. That had never happened before in my life. If you were free on Thursday from 7-9, you could go down there, and there would be something going on. Maybe Naomi Kline would be speaking. Maybe there was a march to Times Square. Whatever it was, there was always something, and how incredible that was. Simply being in the park was a protest itself. My impression of the park is that it provided an outlet for people who knew that there was something wrong and wanted to do something about it. Literally, all you had to do was show up, and you would be put to work. That’s what was so magical about it.
My hope is that Occupy Wall Street is looked back on
decades, centuries down the line as an important awakening and one of many steps
towards the direction of an envisioning of a post capitalist world. It used to
be the case centuries ago that slavery was widely accepted as the norm of how economies
worked. Slavery was the norm. It was rarely questioned. It was just the way it
was, and that was gradually, to some extent, phased out. Not that there isn’t
still slavery today. There certainly is, but it became no longer the norm. Vaguely,
that was replaced by Feudalism. Feudalism was gradually phased out by these
little pockets of this new free way of living called capitalism. Capitalism in
these tiny little pockets replaced Feudalism where enlightened people
realized that it doesn’t matter who was your serf or who was your lord. If you
have an asset, you can sell it to whoever you want, however you want,
and what a wonderful step in the right direction that was. Now, hopefully we’re
at another point. Call it whatever you want. I prefer collectivism,
perhaps socialism, perhaps anarchy. All of these kind of ideas seem to point towards a similar idea of people empowering themselves, and by empowering
themselves, I might mean without government. I might mean with government. It doesn’t
particularly matter, but to step beyond the control of the 1%.
It’s just gotten worse since the eighties. The fingers of the 1% around the necks of everyone else has just become so shameful and so embarrassing that inevitably there’s going to be little pockets of resistance, and they’ve always been there. Every time somebody decides to have a punk show in their basement and charge five bucks and turn no one away or help bands out by letting them sleep on their couch overnight and cooking them spaghetti, that’s a step against capitalism. Basically, people come together to form their own communities that are outside of the corporate world, where one person on top is pulling in a ton of money or a very small group of people are pulling in a ton of money. That’s a step against capitalism, within capitalism, but it’s a step in the right direction. Occupy is a lot of people who have these kind of ideas coming together and putting it on the front page of the newspaper, which people had been fighting for forever, but for some reason On September 17, 2011, it worked. It matters because it’s a step in the right direction for something that in my view of history is inevitable progress of humankind.
It’s just gotten worse since the eighties. The fingers of the 1% around the necks of everyone else has just become so shameful and so embarrassing that inevitably there’s going to be little pockets of resistance, and they’ve always been there. Every time somebody decides to have a punk show in their basement and charge five bucks and turn no one away or help bands out by letting them sleep on their couch overnight and cooking them spaghetti, that’s a step against capitalism. Basically, people come together to form their own communities that are outside of the corporate world, where one person on top is pulling in a ton of money or a very small group of people are pulling in a ton of money. That’s a step against capitalism, within capitalism, but it’s a step in the right direction. Occupy is a lot of people who have these kind of ideas coming together and putting it on the front page of the newspaper, which people had been fighting for forever, but for some reason On September 17, 2011, it worked. It matters because it’s a step in the right direction for something that in my view of history is inevitable progress of humankind.
I don’t think I will ever see this in my lifetime, but
basically, I hope to see a post-capitalist world, a world in which it is widely considered shameful to make money with money, that if you’re not serving
people and you're not serving a community, you don’t deserve a reward, that lobbying
be a criminal offence because I still believe in representative government, I
think. I’m still thinking about that, but I think the better world I’m
envisioning is one where, to put it in a cliché, people over profit, that it
becomes a world where greed is frowned upon not just in little kid’s movies and
in stories but actually in practice, and that those who should be ashamed of
themselves are made to feel that shame and are disempowered. I shouldn’t even
put it that way, that people can just collectively re-envision, bring to life
this vision of a world without greed, where need is respected over greed, where everyone is guaranteed an education if they want it,
healthcare, literacy and food and freedom of speech in every conceivable way. I think the needs of people will fall into place, be it through
representative government that ensures those needs for people or be it through a more grassroots collective anarchist/ syndicalist sort of way.
It was Eugene Debs that said, “Years ago, I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am in it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” That’s the world I want to see. What I just described is a world where greed is frowned upon. I don’t believe that there is a world where greed doesn’t exist. I think that there will be struggle forever and in a sense that we should look back on our forefathers and foremothers, and I don’t mean George Washington. I mean people who fought for change. I mentioned Eugene Debs, who ran on the radical platform in 1900 that women should be allowed to vote. He was completely unelectable. Twenty years later, women got the right to vote. Things that seemed impossible or improbable became inevitable and obvious. We’re seeing that right now with marriage equality. It’s clear to many today that those who oppose marriage equality, that their grandchildren will be ashamed of it. What I’m trying to say is that there will always be something to struggle for. So then what? Then, we continue to fight for the better world. All of these wonderful things that we have today, social security, Medicare, minimum wage, union labor, that’s all a result of people’s struggle.
It was Eugene Debs that said, “Years ago, I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am in it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” That’s the world I want to see. What I just described is a world where greed is frowned upon. I don’t believe that there is a world where greed doesn’t exist. I think that there will be struggle forever and in a sense that we should look back on our forefathers and foremothers, and I don’t mean George Washington. I mean people who fought for change. I mentioned Eugene Debs, who ran on the radical platform in 1900 that women should be allowed to vote. He was completely unelectable. Twenty years later, women got the right to vote. Things that seemed impossible or improbable became inevitable and obvious. We’re seeing that right now with marriage equality. It’s clear to many today that those who oppose marriage equality, that their grandchildren will be ashamed of it. What I’m trying to say is that there will always be something to struggle for. So then what? Then, we continue to fight for the better world. All of these wonderful things that we have today, social security, Medicare, minimum wage, union labor, that’s all a result of people’s struggle.
It’s easier to look backwards. Let me start by looking
backwards. The struggles of the past, struggles against slavery, struggles
against imperialism, struggles for women’s rights, essentially, all of
those struggles still exist, but social movements made those
evils that were the norm become recognized as evils. Interracial
marriage was illegal in this country until not too long ago. Now, people are
shocked to learn that that was the case until 1967. Now, there’s gay rights. As far as the
struggles of the future, let’s put it this way, I think we’re a
long way off from a guaranteed free education as long as you want it. I think
we’re a hell of a long way off from all food being organic and fair trade. As resources become scares, we will find
new problems and new things to fight against and new creative solutions and new
oppressive forces that try and suppress those solutions, so there will always
be something to struggle for. I can’t imagine fifty years ago someone would
guess, “Oh, one day people will be fighting against Tar Sands oil.” That didn’t
exist yet. New things will come up.
I see an expansion of the definition of “We the People.” “We
the People” used to mean we the white land owning men. I think “We the people”
can and will come to include we the people of the entire world. I like that narrative
for the American experiment, which is to say that it's a work in progress,
that it’s always been an expansion of the idea of "We the People." It’s very easy to see environmental destruction, economic inequality
among races getting worse. A lot of that looks like steps backwards, but if you
take a longer look at the American experiment as basically an expansion of "We
the People" and who the people are and what we the people means and what life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness means, that every generation, every
century there’s been an expansion of the protection of human rights. There’s
been a lot of steps backwards, and there’s been a lot of steps forward. As long
as people still fight and struggle, then there will be an expansion of the
definition to include everyone in as many ways as possible.
Interview by Stacy Lanyon
http://buildingcompassionthroughaction.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/stacylanyon
https://instagram.com/stacylanyon/
https://twitter.com/StacyLanyon
http://stacylanyon.com/
Interview by Stacy Lanyon
http://buildingcompassionthroughaction.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/stacylanyon
https://instagram.com/stacylanyon/
https://twitter.com/StacyLanyon
http://stacylanyon.com/