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Photo: Stacy Lanyon
Like so
many people, I was concerned with what was going on financially and socially. I
was following Occupy for its first week via the web. I only live twenty minutes
away from Zuccotti. Right after the pepper spray incident the following week, I
came down with a camera for an hour in the morning. There
weren’t many people there. There were people milling about. I wasn’t sure what
exactly was going on. There were people sitting in the meeting area with
computers. Nobody was really protesters. I didn’t actually take any pictures. I
didn’t see any pictures that I wanted to take. I just sat around and looked
around. I remember coming home and saying to my wife, “I don’t know what this
thing really is, but I liked it somehow. I liked the feeling.” It’s still
kind of hard to say exactly what it is, but the attraction is so strong.
I play the saxophone. I practice in the morning. The next morning, I woke up, and I said to myself, “Well, why don’t I go and practice down at Zuccotti. I mean, I like that place.” I went down there and started playing at around eleven in the morning, met some other musicians, jammed a little bit. In the afternoon, we would have those marches at the closing bell. I was up at the front with the drummers leading the march and having a ball. I like talking to people. I was talking to people along the way. Then, we got back to Zuccotti, and there were a lot of people at Zuccotti at that point. There was a drum circle on the Broadway side of Zuccotti, by the statue. Suddenly, I was at the center of all this activity, playing. People were dancing. It was thrilling. It was absolutely thrilling musically, and there was a feeling that you were reaching people. It was about something important. Skip forward to Occupy Goldman Sachs over a year later, we came up with an idea last night that what we are doing is we’re partying with a purpose. We have fun, and we play music and sing together, and we asked one another if this would be as fun if it was just people hanging out, singing and playing. No. It’s this sense that there’s a purpose behind this, that there’s something important that makes the music making so much more satisfying.
I play the saxophone. I practice in the morning. The next morning, I woke up, and I said to myself, “Well, why don’t I go and practice down at Zuccotti. I mean, I like that place.” I went down there and started playing at around eleven in the morning, met some other musicians, jammed a little bit. In the afternoon, we would have those marches at the closing bell. I was up at the front with the drummers leading the march and having a ball. I like talking to people. I was talking to people along the way. Then, we got back to Zuccotti, and there were a lot of people at Zuccotti at that point. There was a drum circle on the Broadway side of Zuccotti, by the statue. Suddenly, I was at the center of all this activity, playing. People were dancing. It was thrilling. It was absolutely thrilling musically, and there was a feeling that you were reaching people. It was about something important. Skip forward to Occupy Goldman Sachs over a year later, we came up with an idea last night that what we are doing is we’re partying with a purpose. We have fun, and we play music and sing together, and we asked one another if this would be as fun if it was just people hanging out, singing and playing. No. It’s this sense that there’s a purpose behind this, that there’s something important that makes the music making so much more satisfying.
I’ve been part of Occupy ever since the day I first walked into the park. I partook a lot in the drum circles. For a week, I was doing almost exclusively music making. Then, I noticed that the media at that time was only concerned with taking pictures of dirty young people on the ground. I decided that I would try to change that, especially since it wasn’t the truth. At the time at Zuccotti, we were getting more and more people of all ages and all types. I donned a suit, and I was carrying this ‘Harvard man for Economic Justice’ sign. I became this different character briefly. The media just loved this. I was on TV a lot, interviewed all the time. I worked in advertising, so I have a sense of what branding is about. I saw that Occupy had a branding issue that needed to be addressed, so during the fall, I would alternate between the Sax Man and Harvard Man for Economic Justice. Increasingly, I got more and more interested in the politics behind the occupation. Since I was talking about it with people on the street, I would inform myself more and read more and more about what was going on in the world financially, economically and socially, and here I am, continuing to be part of this occupation.
I think we’re always a little disappointed that there aren’t more people at anything we’re doing. The way I look at it now is the important thing is to just persist and to just keep on going. We provide a tremendous amount of hope to people. I’ve heard that from people, a lot of people, whether they’re giving us a high five or a thumbs up on the street. For a while there, I was thinking, are people going to think, “David’s gone off the deep end.” What I actually found is that people who know me look at what we’re doing here as sort of heroic. Maybe it is. It’s gotten more interesting in the post Zuccotti era. Those who remain are really committed. All these people are really committed. We’ve got so many interesting, committed people. It’s always inspiring. I’ve never felt more meaningful as a musician. I really have a place in this community, and it’s really important. I’m always thanked for what I do, whether I play with the guitar players or the drummers. It’s very satisfying. Whenever I go home after a night like tonight, I always feel good. I always feel I’m doing something important. For what we are doing here, we are changing the world, and I have to say that I’m proud to be an occupier.
As Chris Hedges spoke about, you have to resist. Even if you don’t know if it’s going to work or not, you have to resist. I think that’s maybe what’s appealing to people as they pass by. It’s always frustrating that they don’t join in. I’m not quite sure how that changes. From the beginning, I’ve always felt somewhat frustrated that more people didn’t join in with us, but we’re keeping the embers alive. We’re keeping this idea out there, and the idea is extremely powerful. It’s still written about a lot. It’s in the news all the time, not as the big events but as this touch point, this idea, this meme that’s out there. That’s very, very important. I think that gives people some kind of hope that there is some kind of resistance out there. I think people are frightened. Unfortunately, I think they want it done for them, like “Hey Occupy, go fix the world for us.” It’s not going to happen that way, but you just keep on blowing the horn and playing. What drew me to Occupy was an interest and being on board politically with the message. What keeps me at Occupy is a sense of commitment that this has to be done. It’s a calling. I’ve been called to do this. Sometimes you feel like, “That’s kinda crazy. What am I doing with these people? What the hell am I doing sitting on the street?” This is what I’ve been called to do, and that’s heavy.
I think
many people intuit that the current system is simply unsustainable. I don’t
think you have to look at stuff all that deeply or carefully to understand. We
have a system that is in two ways unsustainable. One, it is unsustainable to
have a society with great income inequality, in which large portions of the
people are, in a sense, being discarded from society and written off. Then, of course,
there’s the environment. I would still call myself a capitalist, but with
reservations. Last year when I was interviewed about this, I was of the
position that we should return to the regulated capitalism that my folks
enjoyed in the fifties and sixties where they were able to send me to college
on their modest middle income level. Now, I think we really have to think about
capitalism or at least what this current system is. It’s important for us to
look at the society we’re living in and what the system is behind it. One could
argue that we’re actually not living in a capitalist system right now. We’re
living in this corporatist system, in which gains are privatized and losses are
socialized. Banks being bailed out is not capitalism according to Adam Smith.
General Motors being bailed out is not capitalism according to Adam
Smith.
It’s
important for people to mobilize people to challenge the unequal system that is
really becoming set in stone here, coagulating and becoming entrenched as a
structural status quo. People need to be aware that that is what is happening,
and it’s not in their interest or in the interest of their children. In that
regard, it’s very important that we raise awareness of this issue. I think it’s
important that we raise the question. Whatever this is, call it capitalism,
call it corporatism, is this really what we want? It’s taboo. You can’t really
talk about capitalism in the United States anymore. Immediately, people will
say, “Well, what do you want Communist China?” You cannot openly discuss what
this system is. Capitalism is all premised on endless growth. That’s the idea
behind it. What we’re seeing right now is that we’re reaching a limit with the
environment. We’re going to have this incredible hurricane coming in. We see
storms becoming more and more severe around the world. We never had hurricanes
here in New York. This is our second one in two years, of massive scale. This
is just one symptom of global warming. The amount of energy of a one degree
increase in global temperature is so massive that it’s being expressed through
these severe storms.
Getting
back to why it is important, simply put, it is important to raise awareness
that the current system is unsustainable. It is dangerous, and it is not in the
interest of the vast majority of people, and we should start thinking about
changing it. Do I have a glib answer for what that change is? No. But it’s time
to start thinking about it. What is an economy, for example? This is somewhat
off topic, but I’ll get into what I want to say through this. If you watched
the convention, Obama talked about the jobs of the twenty-first century. There
are no jobs of the twenty-first century. What is happening is that, in a sense,
we’re getting what we have always wanted. The machines can create everything
for us. Yes, there’ll be a small group of people who need to manage the
machines, but even they will start writing their own software. The machines
themselves will be improving themselves. There will be a small amount of people
managing the machines. The vast majority of people will have nothing to do.
Well, how do you distribute the wealth in that situation? How do you have an
economy when there’s not many jobs for people to do in the old sense of being
productive? Well, perhaps you get points for giving an interview, or housewives
will be paid, or saxophone players. We have to start thinking about a new
economy, assuming we actually make it through his environmental crisis. Let’s
assume we don’t off ourselves, but it has to be considered. Occupy is important
in raising this issue. I think it’s very easy to put your head in the sand. I
do myself. People think that, “If I ignore it, it will get better.” Well, it
won’t. I think most people know that in their gut but don’t want to address it.
We’re addressing it.
I want
a world that is more fair, a world where the wealth is more fairly distributed,
a world in which we respect things. That’s the problem. Increasingly, nothing
is respected, and this is part of the culture of this capitalism we’re in.
Everything is commoditized - nature, people. Everything is data. I see a world
in which what we are doing right now, human interaction, unpressured,
uncommercial, is celebrated and respected, in which there is a respect for the
natural world, in which there is a sense that there is something sacred to our
lives and to the planet. That kind of stuff is poo-pooed in this system, which
only understands things in terms of data. It’s dismissed. It’s viewed as silly
or non-existent because it can’t be understood in terms of an algorithm.
I see a
world in which simple human relationships are valued. Increasingly in this
world, it feels isolated and alienating and cold and lonely. We are an
embodiment of this. I know that we all feel better when everyone is having
a good time. I didn’t even know what joy there is in just hanging around
in a public space with other humanoids, what absolute joy. What a pleasure it
is to meet you and to talk without pressure about anything. When you think
about a society, it really comes down to what you think about human nature. I
think what most people really want to do is hang out with other people. I think
that’s what people like to do, whether it’s a barbeque in the backyard, just
sort of hang out with other people, just be in the presence of other people.
Now, if you were going to start a society, and you said, “Okay, we know that.
We know that’s what makes people happy. How can we organize our society in a
way that gives most of that to most people?” It would be very different from a
society which says, “No, what we want is a lot of stuff,” a society where the
object is to produce more and more stuff. I see a world which respects this
insight that people want to be around other people. It’s so simple.
It
should be able to come because we actually have figured out a way to feed
ourselves. We have figured out how to make all of this stuff. In a way, it
could be a paradise. The machines are doing all this work for us. I see a world
where it’s more fair, where we feel safer, more secure, and where we are able
to be with one another, in which human relationships are central. The country
of Bhutan, their concept is gross national happiness, not gross national
product. What a wonderful idea. Maybe we should have that throughout the world,
where that is how you measure the growth of your society. We tend to measure it
in terms of, “Oh, the gross national product is increasing. We should feel
good.” But are we happy?
I see
more of this. I see what we’re doing here at Occupy as a better way just
because I know I like it. I like the people. Yes, it has its problems, but
overall, it’s always a good scene. It always gives you something. You hang out
with people you’d never meet otherwise. I grew up very privileged, a white kid
from the suburbs of New York. Now, I’ve met people who are very poor or people
who have had problems with the police. What an education. What a good thing. I
respect more people than I used to. I am more open to different kinds of people
than I used to be, and I thought I was before. I have more empathy, especially
toward people who are having a hard time. I think I was a little cavalier about
it before.
I want
a world that is more fair, where 1% or 1/10 of 1% isn’t controlling the vast
majority of the wealth. No one should be earning 250,000 a day. No one adds
that much value. Why are there multi-billionaires? Are they adding that much
value? I can’t believe it. Okay, they’re brilliant mathematicians. Should their
teachers participate in that, their math teachers. The math teachers that
taught those math teachers, should they get a cut of that? I think so. Should
those who built the roads that got the math teachers to school get a cut? In
other words, we’re all in this together. No one succeeds on their own. A fairer
world is better. It’s more fun for everyone when it’s fair, when everyone has a
sense that things are fair. Fair is good.
Interview by Stacy Lanyon
http://buildingcompassionthroughaction.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/stacylanyon
https://instagram.com/stacylanyon/
https://twitter.com/StacyLanyon
http://stacylanyon.com/
Interview by Stacy Lanyon
http://buildingcompassionthroughaction.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/stacylanyon
https://instagram.com/stacylanyon/
https://twitter.com/StacyLanyon
http://stacylanyon.com/